Unity and Protestantism October 19, 2009
Posted by Damian in Living Christianity, Roman Catholicism.Tags: Anglican, bickering, catholicisms, christianity, church, disunity, Eastern Orthodoxy, Gamaliel, heresy, magisterium, orthodoxy, protestantism, Protestatnt, unity
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The other day I was in a conversation where I mentioned the fact that I was not a ‘proud Protestant’. Why? Because I feel the disunity in the church caused by Protestantism has done far greater damage to the church than any correction of doctrine could ever balance. So, when Peter Kirk wrote about this in his recent post, I tuned in:
It still seems to me that there are two logical positions here, the same ones Newman outlined. One is to follow the authority of tradition which leads to Rome, or perhaps to Eastern Orthodoxy. The other is to follow the authority of sola scriptura which leads, whether we like it or not, to the kind of free for all which Robbie Low caricatured. There is, it seems to me as it did to Newman, no logically tenable middle way by which, for example, we reject the authority of the church up to 1517, accept the right of a few Reformers to their private judgment, and then imply that suddenly in about 1611 or 1662 everything changed and we have to abandon sola scriptura and follow the authority of a new Protestant magisterium and inquisition.
The conversation I mentioned took part because I consider myself Anglican, go to an Anglican cathedral, spend my time with Anglicans, and yet haven’t signed up for it. I don’t think I’m trying to walk the middle way that Peter mentions; what I’m doing is sitting on the fence hoping (with probably foolishness – but I keep my eye on the news on Principium Unitatis) that the Catholic and Orthodox conjoin and I can be a part of a united church. But I often wonder, as Peter says, is this foolish? And then he says this:
It is of course very sad when these informal groupings start bickering in public, and they should be encouraged not to. Nevertheless the system is not disastrously bad. Of course some of them have come off the doctrinal rails. But this is where the Gamaliel principle comes in: in most cases congregations which have become seriously liberal gradually decline and die, even though Anglican system tries its hardest to keep these dying congregations alive. The congregations which grow and divide are almost always those which are faithful to the word of God.
To me, you see, it is more important that groupings of Christians do not bicker in public (as they do), than whether or not they have come off the doctrinal rails; especially in todays saturated media, where every statement made can be and is broadcast to every corner of the globe. In a world where disunity is very, very public, I feel that the priority is to present a united Christianity, not to be right in every aspect of doctrine.
Now, perhaps this is foolish: Definitions of ‘Christianity’ then become very important. I, after all, define ‘Christian’ as following the basic historical creeds. But I have friends who do not. And is it disunity to reject these friends? May be. There are plenty of issues with Christian unity. But I nevertheless feel that a unified church, with numerous schisms and heretics, is preferable to schisms without count, and no church to speak of. The church isn’t supposed to be ’survival of the most faithful’. It’s supposed to be all-in-one.
Am I saved? I’m not sure. But I continually hope for salvation… September 12, 2009
Posted by Damian in Roman Catholicism.Tags: christ, hope, humility, love, salvation
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As any reader here knows, I’m sympathetic to Catholic and Orthodox traditions. I appreciated, therefore, Jon Sweeney’s short post:
When I was a Protestant, I viewed salvation in very different ways than I do now. We used to discuss salvation in terms of: how durable was it? could it ever be lost? was it ever earned, or was it always a gift of grace? how does the human will accept salvation, or cooperate with it?
Today, I see salvation in different terms. I will now continually hope for salvation. That’s the work of one who follows Christ: continually living for, and hoping for, salvation. Salvation is summed up in love: God’s, for us, and ours, in response. My job, as a Christian, is to try to learn to accept God’s love, to feel comfortable in that overwhelming love.
I like the humility that’s found in the continual hope for salvation, instead of assurance that it has been obtained, and the fear it could be lost.
Defining ‘ecclesiam’ in ‘extra ecclesiam nulla salus’ February 8, 2009
Posted by Damian in Early Christian Belief and Patristics, Eastern Orthodoxy, Roman Catholicism.Tags: catechism, catechism of the catholic church, christianity, church, doctrine, dominus iesus, Eastern Orthodoxy, ecclesia, extra ecclesiam nulla salus, gospel, outside the church there is no salvation, protestantism, Roman Catholicism, salvation, there is no salvation outside the church
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Extra ecclesiam nulla salus is an affirmation made throughout almost all churches and denominations: Outside the church, there is no salvation. It originated in the writings of the Church Fathers, and for the first thousand years of Christianity, there was no argument regarding its meaning, because until that time, there was only one organisation that called itself the church. Even after that, the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches recognised each other’s place as part of God’s church on earth.
With the rise of Protestantism and the multiplication of denominations, a redefinition had to occur. The church was no longer a single, visible organisation. ‘The church’ had to be redefined. It came to mean all who called themselves Christian – a spiritual entity. This was necessary, in order to affirm a denominations’ own Christianity, and to affirm the Christianity of others’ denominations. It also came to mean a building, a community, or a network of relationships – a social entity. This was necessary, because some Christians could ask how to be saved: Go to church, they were told.. Thus extra ecclesiam nulla salus remained valid, and continued to be a part of Protestant doctrine.
But if a church is simple a group of people with salvation or believe in Christ – if it is a spiritual entity – then surely extra ecclesiam nulla salus is an unnecessary affirmation. After all, it then amounts to ‘Outside of those who have salvation, there is no salvation’. A spiritual entity, a church as the invisible collection of all believers, is a nonsensical ecclesia. It renders the affirmation self-evident and not worth affirming.
So can a church be a social entity? The main question to ask is: How do we know a given building or community is ‘the’ church? This is a hard one to answer however. There are many buildings, many communities that are not churches. ‘The’ church must have some defining characteristics. Must the people gather in Christ’s name (and what does that mean? – must the word ‘Christ’ be spoken)? Must certain rituals be performed, or words be spoken? Must those gathered conform to a moral benchmark? Most Protestants I know would deny all of these. They would deny that God would care about ritual, that no specific words are necessary to ‘conjure’ the church, and that we are forgiven our sins. But by denying these things, the definition seems to return to that of a spiritual entity.
Does the definition return? Or does an ecclesia that is an entity both spiritual and social work in the context of this affirmation? The sum of the parts may be greater than the whole in this case. If the defining characteristic of the social entity is their belief, then the affirmation could be rendered thusly: ‘Oustide of those who gather in the belief of Christ, there is no salvation’. Here both the spiritual aspect and the social aspect are necessary. But simple belief in Christ is not enough, and neither is simple gathering.
I might leave it at that. But the truth is, the affirmation could still be rendered non-sensically: ‘Outside gatherings of the saved, there is no salvation’ is worse than the truism, because it is self-contradictory, suggesting that there are some with salvation who do not have salvation. To put it another way: If there can be gatherings of the saved, there can be individuals who are saved. But these individuals are not saved, according to this affirmation.
It seems that all three variations of the Protestant ecclesia lack sense in this affirmation. The Catholic and Orthodox response is to say that the church is an objective entity that possesses social and spiritual characteristics, but is not defined by them. This is a satisfactory solution. However, I am left wondering: If I affirm extra ecclesiam nulla salus, am I naming myself damned? I am neither Catholic nor Orthodox.
Now, the Catholic church says I may still be. The Catechism of the Catholic Church says things like this:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience – those too may achieve eternal salvation. (CCC847)
Salvation is found in the truth. Those who obey the prompting of the Spirit of truth are already on the way of salvation. (CCC851)
And in the declaration Dominus Iesus:
For those who are not formally and visibly members of the Church, “salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church, but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation.
I’m not sure what the Orthodox beleive on these matters. They don’t seem to worry about things like this. But it seems that regardless of the church I am a part of, if I seek God sincerely, and try to do his will by his Holy Spirit, I’ll be ok. But nevertheless, I’ll ask the question, if anyone cares to answer: Does anyone have a non-Catholic understanding of ecclesia that does not devolve into nonsense or truism?


